Ammunition German 88mm Summary 6b221q

Basically there were three mains groups of 88mm rounds. 1)The ammunition for Flak 18/36/37 and KwK 36. 2)The ammunition for Flak 41. 3)The ammunition for the Pak 43 and KWK43 and derivate. The shell can be divided in two main group The H.E. Hight explosive (Sprenggranate) And the A.P. Amour Piercing (Panzergranate). Each shell was designated as to whether it was nose fuzed H.E. round(Kopfzündung o r Kz.)or bse fuzed(Bodenzunder or Bd.z.)the latter being used with A.P. rounds. For the nose fuzed H.E.time fuzes were used but by the end of the war these fuze s incorpored a percussion element. A 88mm Fuzes-a Summary A.Z 23/28 Nose Fuze,could be adjusted for immediate action or 0.1 sec.delay. A.z 38 Nose fuse.Impact. Zt.Z S/30 Fg Nose fuze.Centrifugal weight action,variable up to 30 sec Dopp.Z. Nose Fuze Clockwork. Bd.Zf.8.8cm.Pzgr. Base fuze avialable in two sizes,a percussion fuze it could be varied to provide a delay to allow the HEAT to explode inside a vehicle. Bd.Z. 5127 Base Fuze,variable like the Bd.Zf.88mm Pzgr. Bd.Z.5103&5103/1 Base Fuze variable. Some experiment made with radio and acoustic proximity fuzes,electric time and c ombustion fuze only in development stage. This informations are from "88 Flak&Pak P.Chamberlain & T.Gander AFV Weapons Spe cial Profile Publications LTD ISBN 0 85383 092 4".

Shells used : Sprenggranate : HE Panzergranate : APHE Hohlladungsgranate , for the 8,8 cm guns, this was the 8,8 cm Granate 39 Hl (Hol ladung): HEAT Panzergranate 40: APHC Leuchtgeschosse: flares/Illum. Anschussgeschosse: proof Brand Schrapnell: Incendiary schrapnell Off all of those, "Übung" or practice shells and "Blind" or Inert shells were made . Then there were dummy rounds, to practice loading "Ladeübung Patronen" or "Ex" (Ex erzier) Rounds to practice loading and fuzesetting "Ladeüb. und Zünderstellpatrone" Rounds to practice fuzesetting alone: "Zünderstellpatrone". Rounds for teaching purposes : "U"or "Unterrichtpatrone" There were cases to safely remove shells that had become stuck in the barrel: "A ushilfekartusche" This was pretty much a blank round. Cases to measure the powder temperature during storage: "Messkartusche". Blank rounds: "Manöverkartusche" The 8,8 cm Flak 41 had it's own type of HE shells, not interchangeable with the other 8,8 cm guns. Same goes for all the 8,8 cm Pak 43/KwK 43 shells. The shells fired from Flak 18 were also used by Kw.K 36, the navy used a great d eal of those shells as well, but also had it's own designs.

The Dopp. Z S/60 were never used in AA combat, it really would have been a waste of such a complex (expensive) fuze. The fuzes for AP shells: BdZ. f. 8,8 cm Pzgr. and BdZ 5127 could not be set to a variable time; first of all, the shells were fix on the case, so there was no w ay to reach the fuze, second: those fuzes had no device to set the delay time, i nfact you would have to screw the fuze out of the shell, take the initial charge (very dangerous) , before you could get to the fuze... Bd.Z 5103 and and 5103* (There's no such thing as BdZ 5103/1) were never used on 8,8 cm Shells. I haven't mentioned any of the experimental shells, because so many different va riations were made. Sub caliber, rocket proppeled, mine shells, extra long shells , arrow shaped, fi xed wing stabilized, folded wing stabilzed, "Mutter-Kind" shells, Röchling, Tromms dorf... The list is very long, most of them are virtually unknown. ################

8.8cm HE PROJECTILES Post Number:#1 Postby WAKEN on 12 Jan 2010, 13:54 The data below is copied from another website. The figures are for total weight and HE filler weight in pounds 88mm 88mm 88mm 88mm

21.0 20.5 20.4 21.0

2.2 2.0 1.9 2.0

Sprgr.43 Sprgr.L/4.5 Sprgr.Patr Sprgr.L/4.5

Are these ammo types fired by all 88mm guns (KwK 36, KwK 43, PaK 43/41, FlaK 18/ 36/37/41)? No. The rounds for Pak and Kwk have case length 822.1 mm, when for Flak case len gth is 570 mm. Sprgr. 43 and Sprgr.Flak. 41 are for Pak/Kwk, Sprgr.L/4.5 is for Flak. No, 8,8 cm Spgr. L/4.5 Kz was initially also used on Kw.K. 43/Pak. 43 ammunition and i think also on 8,8 cm Flak 41. The shell did not function properly (instability during flight) in both guns and was rapidly replaced with an altered version (wider drivingbands) of the 8,8 cm Spgr. Flak 41, renamed 8,8 cm Spgr. 43. Furthermore, 8,8 cm Spgr. L/4,5 Kz was also used in 8,8 cm kw.K. 36 and various navy models. 8,8 cm Spgr. 43 was only used on 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 and Pak. 43 ammunition. 8,8 cm Spgr. Flak 41 was only used on 8,8 cm Flak 41 ammunition. There's no such thing as a a 8,8 cm HE round (8,8 cm nstance would be : "8,8 cm 43" or "8,8 cm Spgr.Patr.

8,8 cm Spgr.Patr., it's an incomplete term describing Sprenggranatpatrone) of some sort, correct term for i Spgr. Patr. Kw.K. 43" or "8,8 cm Spgr. Patr. 43 Kw.K. L/4,5 Kz".

############### These shells are used in the Famous 8,8cm Flak 18/36 L/56 gun, also used in the

Tiger1 tank as the Kwk36 L/56. This gun, using these shells, was the main partic ipant as were it came to the destruction of many Allied tanks over great ranges. Only when the Brittish 17 Pdr. with A.P.D.S. shells and the American 90mm H.V.A .P. shells appeared on the end of WW2, the 8,8cm Flak 18/36 guns found their mat ch. Four types of AP shells were available for the 8,8cm Flak 18/36 gun ; two types of PzGr., the PzGr.40 (hardcore) and the Hollow charge type. Here, only the 8,8c m.PzGr. And the PzGr. 39(-1) shells will be described. Both PzGr. shells exist of a carbon steel body, pointed at the nose, with a flat base. The nose of the projectile is hardened. Both shells have a piercing cap w ith a remarkable round nose, made of mild steel. This cap prevents the hardened nose from shattering on impact (devides the impact force over the entire nose) a nd prevents the shell from bouncing off the target when hitting at lower angles. Both shells have a ballistic cap to reduce drag, and so prevent loss of speed ov er greater distances. The main difference between both shells is in the size of the exploder cavity, t he 8,8cm PzGr. (older type) has a larger exploder cavity with a large fuze (BdZ. F. 8,8cm Pzgr), the (later type) PzGr.39 and PzGr.39-1 have a small exploder ca vity with a smaller fuze (BdZ. 5127 f. Pzgr39). When placed on a shellcase, the outer appearance of both shells is exactly the same. To prevent confusion, the 8 ,8cm Pzgr. projectile was painted black , the Pzgr39 (-1) had the upper 40mm of the ballistic cap painted white. For the Pzgr 39-1, a large 1 was stencilled , j ust below the white tip on the ballistic cap. The main difference between the Pz Gr.39 and the PzGr. 39-1 was that the PzGr.39-1 was made of a better quality ste el (harder and tougher). The main difference between the Flak18/36 shell and the KwK.36 shell is the prim er in the shellcase that is used. The Flak18/36 uses the C/12 n.A. or C/12n.A.St . (steel) firing pin activated primer, as where the KwK.36 uses the electric pri med C22 or C22 St. primer. Therefore, the cartridges are not interchangable in s pite of the fact that it is the only difference between the two shells. When the shells are meant for the KwK.36 tankgun, the text "8,8cm KwK.36" is printed on the shellcase. The steel shellcase has a C12n.A.St. primer, the brass shellcase has a C12 n.A. primer. So both shells in the picture are meant for the Flak 18/3 6 gun. The 8,8cm PzGr. Weighs in at 9,65 kg and has a 134 grams Fp10 (TNT+10% wax) (yel low) explosive charge, with a 34 grams NP10 (Nitropenta)(pink) core in the cente rline of the main charge, just above the detonator. The entire Charge is packed in an aluminium bushing that fits in the explosives charge cavity in the base of the projectile. It is named: Sprldg.d.8,8cm PzGr. (Sprengladung der 8,8cm Panze rgranate / Explosive charge for 8,8cm Armour piercing shell). On top of this bus hing a glass or bakelite half ball was glued to fill up the top of the cavity. I t also prevented the projectile from detonating prematurely through impact gener ated heat. In fact a kind of heat insulation. This bushing was glued in place wi th magnesiumkit (WW2 predescessor of polyester resign).The bushing is 48,5 mm in dia at the base, 93,5mm long and has a dia. of 27mm at the top. The glass or ba kelite "half ball" on top of the bushing has a dia. of 27 mm. The complete prepa cked charge is 107mm long. Total weight of the prepacked charge is 178 grams ±10 g rams. The Fuze used in this projectile is the BdZ. f. 8,8cm PzGr. (BodenZunder f ur 8,8cm PanzerGranate / BaseFuze for 8,8cm Armour piercing shell). The fuze bod y is made of steel. The base of the fuze has a threaded hole to receive a no.4 t racer element. The top of the fuze has a stepped hole, threaded in top. The lowe r part of the stepped hole houses a firing cap in an inertia cylinder. Above it, an aluminium ring is placed, on which the centrifugal safety segments (sicherun gskappen) are placed. These segments prevent the firing cap from moving forward when unfired; after firing they are thrown outward by the centrifugal force, ena

beling the firing cap to move forward into the fixed firing pin on impact. This firing pin is housed in the upper part of the fuze, which is screwed into the ma in body of the fuze. Around the firing pin, four holes are drilled, ending up in a gas collection chamber. This chamber is internally threaded in top to receive a brass cap with a 0,05 mm dia hole in the centerline. After impact, the flame of the firing cap travels through the four holes, into the gas collection chamer where it must gaine some momentum (pressure build up) before it can press itsel f through the 0,05 mm dia. hole and ignite the detonator. The time lapse between impact and explosion caused by this phenomina, is the time the projectile needs to penetrate the enemy armour and than explode inside the target. Detonator P3 (Sprenkapsel P3) is screwed over the upper portion of the fuze. It is an all alu minium detonator, containing 0,15 grams of heat (flame) sensitive bleiazid-Trizi nat in the lower part and 0,15 grams of Np5 (Nitro penta with 5% wax) on top of this. Weight of the detonator is 16 grams.Weight of the fuze with detonator is 8 45grams +16 grams, a total of 861 grams. The 8,8cm PzGr.39 and the 8,8cm Pzgr.39-1. Weight of the projectile is 10,2 kg. It has a explosive charge of 64 grams H10 (Hexogen with 10% wax). The charge is pressed into the body. The projectile is fuzed with the BdZ.5127, a spring loade d fuze, screwed into the baseplug. The fuze body (green) has a firing cap placed in the lower part. In the upper part, a spring loaded, downward facing firing p in is held in position by two balls which are locked up by a ring sleeve (red). Above this ring, a wire ring with an interruption is placed in a groove, blockin g the ring sleeve from moving forward and releasing the firing pin. After firing , the ring wire is forced open by the centrifugal force, enabeling the ring slee ve to move forward on impact. The balls can than move out and the firing pin is released. It is however held in it's tensioned position by the enourmous descele ration while piercing armour. Once the armour is pierced and the desceleration s tops, the firing pin moves down into the firing cap. The flame travels up throug h two holes in the firing pin into the detonator, exploding the projectile insid e the enemy target. The detonator used is the detonator no.34A /B which is screw ed in the baseplug, above the fuze. It contains 0,30 grams of heat (flame) sensi tive bleiazid-Trizinat in the lower part and 0,15 grams of Np5 (Nitro penta with 5% wax) on top of this. The detonator is made of steel. In the base of the base plug a tracer element No.1 is placed (leuchtspurhulse No.1). The fuze will not function when a steel plate of 30 mm thick or less @ 90 degree angle is hit. It Must be noted that the PzGr39 / PzGr39-1 / Pzgr39/43 , if found as a misfire (or dud / Blindgäner), should be concidered to be one of the most dangerous type o f projectile known. The ring sleeve (red) can have partially crept forward, on t he virge of releasing the locking balls. Handling or dropping the projectile may result in the sleeve moving further upward, releasing the spring loaded firing pin, exploding the projectile. German EOD descriptions clearly state that a Pzgr .39(-1), if found, should be :"blown up on the spot without changing position, b y means of a hollow charge without making any to the projectile." The shellcase for the 8,8cm Flak 18/36 cartridge is made in brass and steel. The shellcase number is 6347 (brass)or 6347 St (Stahl / Steel) The shellcase is 570 mm long. The primers in the shellcase used are the C12, C12Na., C22 or C22St. T he powdercharge in the shellcase is made up of 2,5kg Digl. R.P-8-(495 x 5,5/2,75 ); Dyglykol tubes, 495mm long, 5,5mm in dia with a 2,75 mm bore. Below this main charge a bag was sewed, containing 20 grams of Nz.Man.N.P. (blade powder) (1,5x 1,5x0,5) The 8,8cm PzGr.39-1 projectile was also used on the shellcase of the KwK.43 gun for the Koningtiger. It has wider drivingbands. In the German nomenclature it wa s known as the PzGr.39/43. The 8,8cm PzGr.39-1 projectile was also used on the 88x855R shellcase of the Fla

k41 gun. The powdercharge in the shellcase is made up of 5,5kg Digl. R.P-7,5-(74 0 x 4,7 /1,5); Dyglykol tubes, 740mm long, 4,7mm in dia with a 1,5 mm bore. Belo w this main charge a bag was sewed, containing 20 grams of Nz.Man.N.P. (blade po wder) (1,5x1,5x0,5). #################### The 8.8cm L/74 compared to the 8.8cm L/56. Length: 8.8cm L/74 is 651.2 meters in length. 8.8cm L/56 is 492.8cm in length. By January 1945, just over 300 were produced. Compared to the mass produced 8.8cm L/56 in the FlaK configuration, the 8.8cm L/ 74 could fire rounds up to an altitude of 48 000 feet. That's 16 000 more than t he shorter 8.8cm L/56. This weapon was considered easier to load, and was capable of firing 20 - 25 rou nds per minute. It used full brass casings. It wasn't without its problems. There was a problem with the round ejection. The re was a lacking amount of space in the breach area, and as a result the weapon could be easily jammed. Much like the 8.8cm L/71, it used a boat tailed anti-aircraft shell. However, it used smaller driving bands. The shell size compared to the famous 8.8cm L/71 was impressive. The shell used by the L/74 was 3.3cm taller than the one used by the L/71. The official manual for 8,8 cm Flak 41 (L.Dv. 4402/8) lists the following shell types: 8,8 cm Spgr. Flak 41 8,8 cm Spgr Flak 41 (Bl) (Practice version, filled with tar) 8,8 cm Pzgr. 39 8,8 cm Pzgr 39-1 8,8 cm Pzgr 40 As you can clearly see, it did have Panzergranate ammunition developed for it. It's completely feasible that this gun could have been used as an anti-tank weap on or possibly mounted in a tank. Below are common designations for different ca nnon configurations. ################ Real Flak 41 rounds (with the boat tailed shell, which is the same shell as on a 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43/Pak 43 round, but with smaller drivingbands) are much, much rar er then Kw.K. 43 rounds. In the last 15 years, i have seen only 4 real Flak 41 rounds for sale, but count less Kw.K. 43 rounds. Despite that the 41 is much rarer, the KwK 43 fetches higher prices, probably be cause everybody is so fixated on wanting a Köningstiger" round. : i am talking about the HE rounds here, the more exotic rounds are a di fferent subject all together. I am glad that you responded to this thread,been looking forward to talking to y ou about FLAK-41'S as most europeans do not have a clue to how rare a FLAK-41 gu n was to begin with. there was less of these guns by the end of the war than kin g tiger tanks ! KING TIGER -kwk-43 ="489" total approx. by may 1945 FLAK- 41-L/74 = "318" total approx. by jan. 1945 they also made a FLAK 37/41 =only "13 " by may 1945 FLAK-18,36,37 = "10,704" total appox.by aug. 1944 When you use common sense and look at the numbers you do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out which is more collectible . there is also the FLAK-40 -12.8cm which very few were made

A kwk-43 -88m round is very impressive round to have and hard to find in good sh ape because of the "brass coated steel shell" but a FLAK-41-L/74 is the bad boy on the block being 33mm taller than a KWK-43 r ound would love to see one of your boat tail 88mm flak 41's Flak 41 was at first tested by firing the normal 8,8 cm HE shells, but these pro ved to be instabile during flight (if i correctly)), and were soon repl aced by a new boat tailed design; which was the longer 8,8 cm Sprenggranate Flak 41. That same boat tailed shell was later used for 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43, but trials learn ed that the small drivingbands of the Spgr Flak 41 could not withstand the highe r gaspressures of the 43. So the original Spgr. Flak 41 was fitted with wider drivingbands; this shell bec ame known as the 8,8 cm Spgr 43. Anyway... The official manual for 8,8 cm Flak 41 (L.Dv. 4402/8) lists the following shell types : 8,8 cm Spgr. Flak 41 8,8 cm Spgr Flak 41 (Bl) (Practice version, filled with tar) 8,8 cm Pzgr. 39 8,8 cm Pzgr 39-1 8,8 cm Pzgr 40 Other 41 shells i came across in manuals or real life: 8,8 cm Spgr. Flak 41 splitter, which had the same serations as you're shell. 8,8 cm Spgr. L/4,7 , which resembles the boat tailed Flak 41 version, but has a thicker wall and base. 8,8 cm Spgr Flak 41 (Bl) mit hemplatte, inert practice version with a thick flat steel disk instead of a fuze; used to test reworked barrels. 8,8 cm Granate Brandschrapnell Flak: Incendiary Schrapnell Fuzes used: HE shells: Zt.Z S/30, Zt.Z. S/30 Fg, Zt.Z.S30-1, AZ 23/28 A.P.: BdZ. 5127 Inert practice versions were fitted with a dummy fuze (Zünder ersatzstück). ########################